If I had a dollar for every time someone says this crap, I'd be a rich man. The Declaration is not a part of our government. It has no bearing on the religiosity of our government. It was written 11 years before the 1st Constitutional Convention.

The pilgrims were not founding a new nation, they were British colonials and Britain has a state religion. This has no bearing on the Constitution that was created to define OUR nation.

And you can't have freedom of religion unless you also have freedom from religion. They could practice, or not. Either way, the government has no say in that choice. That is what separation of Church and State means. The government does not interfere with your PERSONAL religion choice, even if that is no religion at all.

It was? Show me where in the Constitution where it states we were founded upon Christianity.

Do you realize the problem with this statement? I think you don't. As you said, it was Founders who created and ratified the constitution in which the freedom of religion was enshrined, not god. The right of people to hold their personal beliefs about god was so important to them that it was the very first thing they settled on.

I never asked why we use it. I know why we use it. And it's wrong for the government to use the phrase "so help me god" in an official capacity since god has no place in our government.

-S-

 

where is the monkey king in this thread? the same monkey king who believes that religion only affects religiously fundamental societies?

 

I'm sure he'll poke his head in at some point, but he might find himself in a difficult position. He's vowed to no longer speak to me, so he'll have to quote someone else in order to fling his poo.

-S-

 

i believe it is you who are screaming Shake, if you are shaking stop before that syndrome takes your life. they left it out for good reason(fully explained) and again look at most original oaths(judges, political and citizenship) they all contained so help me GOD because that is what they believed and most still do today, atheism holds such a tiny place in the hearts of people worldwide but you and select others here are somehow more enlightened? ha! Godless? you deny history, you deny facts, and maybe even yourself, i don't know. do you exist, in your mind? ok :excited:

 

Okay, if this nation was not founded on religion explain to me why on every single bill of money, no matter the denomination of it, they all have the statement "In God We Trust".

 

The Pilgrims were Puritans.

The first successful colony was in Virginia and was in order to make the Crown money, like most of the colonies were. Only Plymouth and Maryland were about religious freedom.

The person who drew up the Declaration of Independence was a burguoise(sp?) from Virginia, as were the majority of people who were involved in government. Religion had absolutely nothing to do with it and the whole thing about all men being created equal was to say that they had every right to go as far in life as they wanted and to have the same things as the King and all of these people who thought they were superior to everybody else. For the most part, the Declaration of Independence was them saying "We have every right to exist how we see fit, you lost your right to consider us your subjects because you don't do shit for us, and Fuck You and the horse you rode in on" and of course listing the reasons why that was justified.


Still, this thread was just more sensationalist bullshit really. You're right in saying that it's optional and all of that, and it's merely a way to agree to answer to something bigger than yourself(as was every other "so help me God, I swear to God, etc").

 

:lol: @ virtual poo

 

I am not religious anymore, I more of a spiritual person. I was born and raised as a roman catholic, but I am now agnostic. But thanks for the offer.

 

The non-religious make up 15% of the population of the U.S. It is the only "religious" group that is showing growth. Atheists make up more than Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. combined. The Constitution did not include a reference to god. All the instances where god was included were added much later, by lesser men.

-S-

 

Mr Shit? Lemme introduce you to my friend, Mr Fan....:lol:

 

i stopped going to church when i was like 14, i am spiritual as well but i will never stop believing in the trinity(should i?) what offer? :excited:

 

I have to say I am rather surprised that with a country as extensive as America, with so many religions and beliefs all under one flag, that this would happen. I am not totally up to scratch on the UK Oath - but I think that they do the same. Which again, is rather surprising.

This just shows the archasisms that still are very apparent in this world. Those Oaths were created when God actually meant something to people...now its seems more like hopeful, old fashioned values.

 

hopeful and old fashioned? maybe. morals and values will never change i hope. God has helped me in more ways than i will ever know.

 

Because they had an ignorant plate maker it was supposed to read:

IN GOLD WE TRUST

but he mispelled it.

 

And I am glad for you!

But do you really think it is fair to grant someone citizenship only if they agree to submit and pledge something to someone/something they have no believe in, no knowledge of and that fundimentally undermimes whatever their religious beliefs?

"Our God is the right one and you have to embrase him into your life else we will kick your ass outta here"

 

The Pilgrims wanted to break from the Angelican Church. The Puritans never had the intention to break from the Anglican Church. So to say that Pilgrims were Puritans is a fallacy. Read up a bit on it, here are some links.

*not_secure_link*www.pilgrimhall.org/PSNoteNewPilgrimPuritan.htm

*not_secure_link*colonial-america.suite101.com/article.cfm/pilgrims_and_puritans

Yes, I understand that the Declaration of Independence was they way of the forefathers to tell England to go play 'hide and go fuck themselves", but the Declaration of Independence was the document that created this nation. So if this document is what creates this nation, then how is it not the basis of this nation? And how can it not be the basis of the beliefs in the nation?

 

Do you mean the HOLY TRINITY OF PUSSY AND TITS?

Or the one of PENIS AND BALLS?

AND DIDN'T GOD CREATE THEM BOTH?

 

S-

Most new citizens, including children, have some kind of religion. Children, of religious people are likely to be raised to believe that there is a God. So, objection from anyone, except for a purest atheist like yourself, is unlikely.

I would think that one could legally reject mentioning "God" if they really pushed the point with the official. Or just say "so help me Todd". Just saying the phrase "so help me God" does not necessarily mean that you are religious.

Whitey

 

So does that mean that because he is an athiest his opinions matter less than a Christian? Does he come before or after a Jewish person? Where does it go on the sliding scale when Hindu's are thrown in?

Sorry, but I found that rather a redundant line....


Would yo complain if someone was holding your life and happiness on the line? Or would you just "put up and shut up"? Just because the majority are not highly vocal doesnt mean that there is justification to do whatever you want (governmentally speaking).

There should be a more generic phrase that people can say so then they are not forced to lie/submit to say something they dont mean.

 

liberalism it it's finest, Semi what is your opinion on same sex marriage?